tv Making Money With Charles Payne FOX Business April 9, 2015 6:00pm-7:01pm EDT
thanks for joining us. don't forget to dvr the show if you can't catch us live. "making money" with charles payne is coming up next. have a great evening. we'll see you right back here tomorrow. ♪ ♪ charles: i'm charles payne, and you're watching "making money." false starts and the anxiety of the markets have really marked the action over the last three days. the dow, believe it or not, locked in a tight range. 150 points. look how crazy that 150 points were. today ex-emreplyifies it all. the job claims not too good. we started to rebound. we spiked really good into the close while the broad market is marking time -- one name is altair a. intel pulled their takeover offer only to see the rumors come back. the stock made a huge move to the upside. (?) no doubt at all that this market is setting up itself for a huge move. the big question, in
which direction? let's talk about it. here to help us out. the usual crew. matt mccaul. still riding the high. been rocking. david nelson makes a lot of money anyway. chad is back with us. hillary cramer. a new face tonight. kathy wood. ark investment management. ceo. nice to have you on. a lot of your stocks we'll talk about. let's do it. let's dig into the real, real deal. i personally feel that this market is a coiled spring. ready to bounce to the upside big time. because here's the thing, these markets, these tops that are usually associated with euphoria not there yet. the market does need a catalyst. i'm not sure exactly what that will be. >> you certainly won't get it from earnings this quarter. guidance will also be muted. when you look at the global backdrop, you're looking at a deceleration -- and a pe ratio of 17 times. so our expectations are for positive returns in 2015.
but we would be much more pragmatic and be somewhat more underweight equities in relationship to your portfolio. charles: what would you have instead of stocks. >> we would have stocks. low-momentum stocks instead of high fliers. you want to look at consumer staples. you want a hefty amount of cash as well as -- charles: what is the catalyst going to be ultimately? just valuations? >> well, you have to have growth. because market multiples overextended. you have profit margins which are at an all-time high. or near it. you won't get anymore margin expansion to push up the market. matt: but the move to the low volatile stocks. they track the low volatile stocks for the last 12 months. it was more volatile than the overall market. a lot of the stocks, the money is coming in and out. they're just as volatile. >> the summer staples. you can still move up the quality spectrum.
>> one catalyst that is important that's right in front of us, the acquisition and mergers. we keep thinking about earnings, greece, and china. i think these mergers. it won't just be the energy space and technology. >> i want to take the other side. the mergers to me, that's an ominous sign. there is a dark cloud behind that. these companies have run out of gas. charles: right. >> therthis is the only game left in town. charles: we'll go into more detail into that on the next part. what i'm looking at now, kathy, the broader market. we're very volatile, but in a tight trading range. you can feel the anxiety. you can feel it in the air. at some point we know these markets break out with these patterns. what would the catalyst be to the up or downside here? >> one of the things that happens in terms of earnings, you see commodity prices come down. a lot of pressure that way. if you look underneath the hood of earnings, i think we'll see big
upside surprises in terms of unit growth going forward. charles: what does that mean? the average person watching the show. unit growth, what do you mean by that? >> car sales, for example. they've already just surprised on the high spied of expectations. we think that kind of thing -- housing starts. that will surprise. another important thing is technology generally is permeating every sector. technology prices tend to fall over time. we get to buy better stuff for a cheaper price over time. but unit growth like apple. >> is it too early to talk on the interpre internet of things. we're making a transition. amazon has a button. google one of them. it feels like we're making that transition. the apple watch, a lot of people talking about that, can those things be the catalyst -- we've heard about it the last few years. now they enter our daily lives. matt: i think they will. invest in the innovative companies that will change the future. to me, yes. earnings will be the catalyst that drive us
higher. because the bar is so darn low. energy will blow the doors off. a lot of these sectors will do well. from a technical perspective, you can you can't have a better pattern. one catalyst. all shorts covered, we go higher. >> it can go the other way as well. you're talking about a handful of companies delivering the sales growth you're talking about. charles: that's almost been the case. the apples of the world and a few of those. >> you can't make it on just those companies alone, charles. charles: but we have for a long time. >> what happens here, you can get positive returns over the next several years. iit will be much more muted. charles: that will justify a higher market ultimately. >> ultimately. you can go through this volatile type of stage here as the fed starts to move towards moving up rates. charles: when we see the volatility, we see it right now. we want to bring it to the next real, real deal. high beta deals, they're acting great. pulse to them. it seems they want to go
higher. i still like sandisk. i think it's oversold. kathy, let's talk about that. what do you think takeovers spark the market or not, we saw a few billion dollars yesterday. i would -- a lot of the names you follow fit that category. some names at the top of your list. >> in terms of m&a. one today. link infor $1.5 billion. (?) that's in the learning skills department, retraining and so forth which we'll desperately need because of robotics. you look at cornerstone on demand, $1.5 billion caps. doubled in sales. csod. training. charles: anything you see in that whole realm. i don't see you as a guy who buys a stock that can be taken over. you woke up, they've been acquired. >> i thought this was going to be about data.
i looked at the highest data. charles: go with beta. i'm seeing the high beta names. whether it's the swks. as many these other names. >> those are great names. the name i brought with me was carnival. you talked about it in the past. 2.5 beta. pretty high beta name. last year was good. yields are up. fuel is in their favor. i think it's a good name. and 27% growth. charles: it's amazing what that stock has done. it wasn't long ago when no one -- they were going to go out of business because of ebola. i remember that one. go ahead. >> now we see where we are. in terms of mergers there are many sectors that haven't started yet. the publication -- skolsstik. they've been on death row for ten years. what do they have going for them? >> the publishing
company caught a bid. charles: that's a david thing. the dead are buying the dead. i'm busting your chops. you can get that when you're up 20%. >> general mills. it's not a four letter stock. not a lot of volatility. dividend yields. roughly 3%. uncapitalized balance sheet. with rates so low and acquisition from a larger acquirer or private equity firm. charles: you can see an activist getting involved in that one. matt: syno. tattoo removal. tattoo, hair removal, veins. >> you got it right. charles: never mind. i'm going to leave it there. i'll tell you during the break. all right, guys. elon musk, he's becoming a household name. is he really a showman, an investor businessman extraordinaire or some sort of modern day superhero. tweet me your thoughts
♪ >> all right. let's blow the whistle. open up the page from payne's investment playbook. now, yesterday, jeff bezos latest venture blue origin announced it's ready for liftoff. literally. the latest in a string of private sector companies soaring into the space. everyone trails this guy, elon musk. despite his successful track-record as an investor and innovator. a lot of people are trying to get a handle on this maverick. pt barnum, whose many claims of fame of discovery of tom thumb.
if you can't dazzle them with dexterity. baffle them with bull. musk would say he's probably a modern day in this casinthisnikla tesla. others say that musk has moved into a new realm. a realm of fame and achievement that can only be matched by a fictional character. tony stark. whatever you think, a lot of money has been made following musk's leap along with these modern day variations. thvision eight years. can they keep it going? will it prove to be an illusion? >> (?) let's talk about this. kathy, you must be a big fan of elon musk. i've checked out your funds. you like tesla. you own tesla. it's one of your biggest holdings. what are people getting wrong about tesla? it's not ever going to sell a lot of cars. their battery technology is farfetched.
he's sucked up every government subsidy known to mankind. he's only making money selling tax credits. >> the reason this is an interesting stock to us, it falls through the cracks. is it an auto company or a battery company or an internet of things company. there are two things that people have to understand how special tesla is. so special that the ceo of porsche a week or two ago said tesla set the standard for evs. we'll follow them. meaning the same kind of battery. no, the small sale batteries. >> that's what the gig plant is about. >> the only company to do small sale batteries. everybody is doing the big batteries. their engineers are used to that kind. >> you've bought into this thing hook, line, and sinker. (?) another good reason. there are 200 control modules inside a tesla,
which -- from which tesla can control performance remotely. in other words, over the air updates. not just for infotainment systems. other companies have that for infotainment systems. tesla can change performance. >> here's the test. did she convince you to buy it. >> no, she didn't. there's no question this man is a visionary. and tesla may someday do great things. as a portfolio manager, i can't get into. the announcement they made moving people from the 70 to es60. that's nothing more than a discounting in disguise. the cost they'll incur from this doesn't cover the price point they have. the battery alone will cost them $2,500 more. >> one thing we've seen with these visionaries. they got away with not having to produce the bottom line. amazon is a great example of that. >> here's the thing that's different with
tesla. tesla is an automobile company. so they have -- tesla right now has if i could assets of $2.3 billion. ford has fixed assets of $56 billion. and tesla is about half the market cap. tesla in order to get ahead -- and, yes, he's the visionary. the design is remarkable. it's incredible. customer service. loyalty, all that. issued has to be issued. >> you're sounding the warning here. >> she's a value investor. i'm a value investor. i wouldn't put it into my portfolio because of my discipline. but it has a target -- we believe it's a real story. it's just for my blood, it's too lofty on the valuation. this isn't a showman. this is the real deal. it's a real company. it's something that, you know, investors should take a look at. matt: everyone is so boring here. once the numbers -- charles: hard to go from cheer i don't seios totesla.
if you want to believe in this company. believe that it will be a leader five, ten years from now, buy it now. (?) you're investing -- charles: that is the caveat. >> what about cheap oil. no one is talking about that. charles: i don't think so. >> how can you say that? charles: in california, the people that have bought teslas in california made 100% more than people who don't buy them. in other words, people don't buy tealsz t teslas to sae on the gas. i i've been in and out of it so much. i wish i held on. i'm looking to buy it. not today. >> they had a great test. (?) charles: i have to cut you off. is there somebody out there, visionary one of these jeff bezos guys that you go all in with right now because of the visionary himself running the company? >> richard branson. virgin america. >> i don't have anyone
right now. matt: my man crash is still elon. >> if i have to go with anybody, elon musk. because i don't think of anybody else that is a visionary. >> jonathan bush. he's bucking the trend too. fall through the crack stock. technology health care. charles: i like it. my subscribers are in it. that's a wild name. heavyweights trying to crush it to death. but netflix. go with netflix. what they've been able to do. and how quickly they've been able to change their business models not once, but twice, tells me it's a company that will go much higher. much higher. you've been hitting me all day. it's that time. speed round of skolsstik ask payne. tweet me @cvpayne
>> all right, guys. that favorite time of the show when you ask questions. and you ask a lot of them. stock, industry, strategy, we're here for you. dan: eigi looked very compelling. may dip a toe in the water. it did look very good today. a web hosting name. certainly out performing go daddy. this is a name that matt likes a lot. he presented it on the show. matt: february 19th. why you dip your toe in the water now? charles: one thing i've been learning, i've been trying to tell you what to do. i need to sell you on this thing. i'm trying to take a sort of approach. i wanyou're a little late,
but you're okay. (?) matt: cloud based services -- i have their app on my phone. i would still -- not buy tomorrow. it's a pullback. charles: if they get too cute, will they miss it. matt: then buy it tomorrow. >> that's in the sweet spot of technology. maybe go daddy will buy them. >> i like them. i looked at the numbers. that peg ratio is pretty enticing. i think it's a buy. charles: it's acting fantastic. beautiful chart. lng should buy magnum hunter. buy them for squat now. probably less than i pay. a lot of people may get it less than what you pay. magnum hunter was around for a long time. it was an amazing oil story. one of these names that went from nothing to a gazillion dollars. it hasn't done anything since. i wouldn't touch that. but shanir energy. i've been in it for
years. trying to get the ceo on the show. been in it for a couple of years. liquid natural gas is the way to go. forget about the 2-dollar stock that may go to four. buy the 79-dollar stock that may go to 200. you're not an energy fan in general are you? >> we believe that oil will go for a range of $55 to -- charles: that's the top of the range. >> you can go in now and start to look at well-capitalized names and start doing your portfolio and add them slowly to your portfolio. >> you're not an energy person either. right? >> i think evs at the margin -- charles: what are evs? >> electric vehicles. electric vehicles on the brain. charles: where does the electricity come from? >> utilities. natural gas, yeah. right. right. but electric vehicles are four times more energy-efficient. charles: sure.
if everyone has electric vehicles, they'll need a lot of this liquid gas. how do you feel about nei. you're trying to pick the bottom on companies with bad news and bad stocks. government probably starting to take back future business from these guys. the stock is holding up. i don't know it enough or like it enough to buy it right here. (?) i won't enable what is a high risk idea. >> the numbers weren't too bad. the valuation was acceptable. not an exciting name. >> but so many business models in there, you're taking too much risk. charles: what's enticing, the 220 modules on the tesla or -- >> internet of things. charles: hey, by the way, don't miss this new "strange inheritance." first, 9:00 p.m. jamie meets a young boy who inherits a successful oregon winery. jamie learns about the emotional "strange
inheritance" that a rock 'n' roll legend left for his sons. any time they do it for the sons, it texans me more. my son is doing his homework on my computer, he says. it starts tonight at 9:00 p.m. on this network. hole in one by the bear. that's right. jack in this case nicholson. 75-year-old jack nicholson barely plays anymore. when you got it, you always got it. we'll handicap stocks that could pop big time from the winners at the masters. don't miss that. s!
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rebels in that country and iran objects to that involvement. the u.s. is maintaining support, and it's interesting because i want to know, we are in the midst of this nuclear deal and iran is still sponsoring terrorism. and so what do you think? >> essentially we have two aircraft carriers and the naval warship sitting off the coast, i'm sure that the navy and the rains are looking over and probably using summit expressive gestures with their fingers. charles: we do have a brand-new panel, i did not introduce everyone. the audience knows some. jesse, todd, we appreciate you being here. >> thank you. >> and here we go, doug burns.
i think it is an interesting move. public opinion on this iranian nuclear deal is really part of this. they would like to know more about this, they are suspicious of it, yet they are still flexing their muscles. what is the deal? >> the entire region is like a powder keg. you know, you have the obama administration and they seem to be the only people. and this is a very dangerous situation and now you have the iranians saying that the obama administration is not being honest about the plan that they have worked out in the deal that they have worked out and they have all these folks over there, shouting death to america, again the president is saying that's not a big deal and they are making googly eyes at us. charles: you have been involved with politics for a long time. are we at the stage now with the
obama administration with public opinion not mattering, whatever the president is trying to achieve he will achieve it or at least go for it no matter what the public says? >> we don't really know what he's trying to achieve. dick cheney finally said is this guy trying to ruin america? you finally said it out loud, so i guess we can say it out loud. everything that the president has been doing, the iranians are not afraid of us committed don't respect us, they don't fear us at all, one of the ways that you get this, people have to fear you and respect you. you have to have those two things and we don't have that. we are giving it away with sanctions, so they are going to have more money and be more aggressive in other areas. charles: once this comes off, i don't care what the president says, it's going to be tough to put them back on. the europeans are chomping at the bit, they are going to be
low to go the other way no matter how they get it. the arbiter is dick cheney. so when those comments are out, you say right on. >> there is a lot of legitimate criticism and that they were operating from weakness, taking off the sanctions, and i think they are criticizing him a legitimate way. it's not unfair to say that he has his eye on the ball of the legacy and what he will be doing. it could sound a little harsh but it's true. charles: he is always a global president in his mind. you go around the world, you get these foundations set up, you heal the world that way. >> my thinking is colored because it's funny that you read my mind. i just read the book and then read another book. the point you would make even
though it's and slurry is that if you read these books and you see the kind of money that is spent and the lifestyle, in my opinion it's virtually impossible to interact with the real world. charles: this is becoming a dangerous game of chicken. they get close to each other behind digesters, something happened behind the spark. >> essentially right now the u.s. is very much involved and i don't think the american people realize how much. we have 12 americans that are deeply engaged in the activities that the saudi arabians are doing. meanwhile we have these warships that are off of the coast that are literally side-by-side and it's not going to take much for there to be an international incident light was said. it's like a keg getting ready to blow up. charles: a federal jury finding dzhokhar tsarnaev guilty on all
counts. and there could even be more terrorists hiding in america. every week we hear a story of homegrown or would-be terrorists. and could that even spark or hasten the development of homegrown terrorism? could there be people on their edge of the seats they have a lot of sympathy for this guy, or what do you think? >> i don't think that fear should control any decision that we should make. we have been soft tooling around in our foreign policy. we should set an example. don't worry about him taking that he's going to go to paradise. we need to send a signal that this isn't going to be tolerated on our shores. many women like us go overseas to fight the wars.
let's show him that it's not going to be tolerated. >> you have the boston globe saying what happens, it does not rise to the level where you can be executed. they ought to strap a backpack with one of the pressure cookers to this guy, watch him go off. >> that is one way to look at it. they are trying to say that he is just a kid and he's following his brother, nobody is buying that. the jurors know that because of the federal case that is out there. most people do across-the-board for moral or ethical religions or whatever, or there is reasonable doubt, but there is no doubt here. he is a grown man, they have these teenage girls sending him e-mail messages.
>> i was surprised to see that boston globe editorial. and i will tell you what, it would be perfectly fine if they had cast it casted in terms of a general disagreement with the theory. but no, they said he was corrupted by his brother. i cannot believe that they put that in the editorial. >> that right there tells you, that if anyone is qualified for the death penalty. you are a successful attorney, you know that susan smith has an amazing track record of keeping the most violent murders off of death row. >> i think she may have run out of her winning streak in the sense that, you're right, it ted kaczynski, that's terrible. >> in this particular case, maybe i am crazy, i think he's just a poster boy for this punishment.
>> 49 states, they are looking at possible terrorist activity, 49 states and its frightening stuff. i think that we have to set an example. >> elizabeth warren said he shouldn't get the death penalty as well. but i would like to hear the voices of the regular bostonians that don't have the platform. i would be shocked. >> he blew up an 8-year-old child. an 8-year-old child. >> he said it was against what the u.s. was doing to the muslims overseas. but now it's like he's made it a political thing. >> his mother said that america is a terrorist and everyone knows it. and it we made the them
permanent citizens, we gave them everything, they went to the university, and this is the repayment. obviously this starts at home. does this help us get around the idea that we can't be more forceful with respect to surveillance? and we want to keep an eye on it. >> if you've got a certain demographic of the population otherwise we are not safe. >> there's a long track record of people that have been kicked out of the country or the mosques because they are so extreme. also remember that we are tracking and the deliberation of
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it seems like maybe it is the money that is forming the opportunity to not mess with early creating them. taking a look at the 2008 presidential run. check out where they wore before as the tide turns. it's very interesting that the money started to follow. so just how influential is all of this cash? >> it is a talking point, a pr point, everybody knows. but now that you have social media and a candidate that doesn't have a lot of money, making it look good, that will draw the money. and you know, it changes everything. because you can have someone with very little money do very well in iowa or new hampshire. hillary clinton, for all of the money that she's going to have and ciardi does have a lot, is she really going to do well in iowa two i think they don't
always want an opponent against her, because i don't think she wants to put on snow boots and traipse around iowa and go to new hampshire, she wants to rewrite it. charles: having said that, it is interesting. we had this big brouhaha and remember obama scolding the supreme court affirmed the entire world. as it turns out when the polls start to shift, i'm not so sure that even the most deep-pocketed individual can determine who runs our country. >> yes, jeb bush has been out there charging a chunk of change for that chicken dinners. he's not guaranteed, he could have a lot of money. that there is no guarantee that that's going to give him the nomination. i think that we need to pay attention to folks like mike huckabee who hasn't jumped in you. but the governor is up to something and he's not going to jump in the pool if there's not any water there. so i think that we need to pay
attention to governor huckabee. >> that is where he is going to raise the most money and. >> yeah, i think you're right. >> this has been a contentious point for a lot of people. and of course democrats and republicans, they say it was bought by of big-money interests. >> there's president obama, samuel alito, citizens united. ripping into that 90 page dissent, you know, the money just expands and extends. >> at that time, time to let you guys go. thank you for coming to be with us in person. okay, guys, can see casino gaming. i want to wanted to get ready to cash in on this rebound
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cracking down from the high fliers, it's been tough, but i think the worst is over. the month-to-month law says have decreased a lot less and i think we are at the point of inflection and this stock is absolutely fantastic. you can make 100 points between now and the end of the year. >> i have to say that it's the best casino spot that they can find, they go for the high rollers and if you're talking about the chinese, believe me. >> i like it, i think that that values things. so from the double bottom which he loves. >> looking at the bonds is a good way to go. >> i like the fact that it's not surprising given the erratic
earnings that they've had. but the valuations is reasonable >> the light to gamble. and i would say that we're going to talk more about china and gambling in a moment. tomorrow morning, don't miss stuart varney. talking to rick smith about the huge jump in the stock, remember i gave you this at $12, up 100% since then, i've been talking about it since then, make sure that you see the show tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. and china. hot and maybe too hot. you will see what a real bubble looks like in just a minute. a lesson on stock market bubbles that you cannot miss coming up next
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charles: okay, guys, it's time for the marching orders. the hottest stock market on the planet. many are saying probably setting off a string of crashes for the the stock market to go down. take a look at this bad boy taking off like a rocket. on average, the average stock is about 220 times earnings come in that's way above our class from back in the day. but this is being fueled by easy money. over there it's really making its way through the market. people are buying stocks and in some ways it defied logic. some are saying that maybe this crowd isn't used to implementing logic or critical thinking. new investors are pouring in at such a feverish pace, 68% have less than a high school
education, the chinese stock market bubble. in my mind may be arm market is not in a bubble just yet. everyone sees where the market goes up. whether it's the market or this or that, just throwing it off the list. >> the biggest bubble we have ever seen in china. and the reason is that the interest rates have been lower, they have their own fiscal monetary policy going on, so no one has any where at ditto with equities, it's $.9 trillion as an industry.
>> the technology is 13% and if everyone is margin of and you end up going back there, it also starts to unwind. >> you see money going from the shanghai index all the way to hong kong. the breakout that uc is very similar to what we had earlier in the year. >> what i want to do is maybe try to educate the audience compared to something in my mind that looks a lot more parabolic, the fever pitch, the amount of counts being open, we are nowhere near that enthusiasm. >> you have a tremendous amount of growth over the last 13 years, you went from a 2 trillion-dollar economy in 2002. >> a lot of that growth has slowed. >> is a two minus amount of capital spending by the
government, courtesy of the government, manipulating rings like the emerging markets side. >> how much is mirrored in our market demand will be 100%? >> no, not at all. >> what it does do is to celebrate global growth. it has an impact on commodity prices, demand curve goes down as well as other commodities. the china story is a very big thing. charles: i think that it's one of the bigger stories out there. >> i think that they're starting to do a lot of good things from financial deregulation point of view and from a monetary point of view and those things have turbocharged it. >> these individuals these individuals have been jumping on the bed for years and now they're taking it. >> yes, they are, real estate, there's been a shift away from real estate in to talk to. >> 18 seconds, does anyone talk
about this? >> i think it's a concern. >> great show, thank you guys so much, if you can't see the show, make sure to record it. right now, we have lou dobbs coming up next. lou: good evening, everyone. i am lou dobbs. exactly one week ago the president stood in the white house rose garden until the american people that the united states and iran were on the verge of a historic nuclear weapons treaty. one that would ultimately lead to a gradual reduction in sanctions. but it has been the iranian view throughout that sanctions must be lifted immediately if an agreement is reached. and of course the obama administration appears to gain this issue on behalf of iran before the allies were the american people could muster robust objection.